Jacobs Ice Pak vs. MSD BTM?

[BLWN GSR]

This is an ignition ...not a miracle....but it has helped get my car as one of the faster 6psi kits....and every 5.0's nightmare
as to jacobs vs msd....i prefer jacobs...more power...more function....you can read all the things on them....
I can get them both ....no more money than the next...so i am not biased...
as to BURNT....
what did you know was going to happen??? That I would be happy to get a 221.8 uncorrected or 218.4 corrected and be happy??? and it hasn't BLOWN UP...like BURNT'S
No power steering....good UP TO 1 - 3 ponies....maybe 1/10th of a second...NOT THAT MUCH....and AC WAS ON....took that off to race the COBRA..
as for the cam gears...they are not even tuned yet....i just set them to 1 intake...4 exhaust...since that seemed like the best from most people...and TOO.....so don't be so upset that my car is fast....its like your MAD or something....
as to the msd btm....ya i like the btm...retard timing based on boost...but the ignition part SUCKS....105 mjs to the sparkplug....HELL NO....how about 1380 on the ICE...much better.....i will dyno in the next couple of months to find the DYNO numbers....but as to now...my car is quick...
and im happy....just saying what I like....So what did you know was gonna happen???

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1996 GSR 4dr....221 hp with a 6psi JRSC
Heres how I pay for all my goodies
POWER

[rjaffey]

Ho_Train,

MTRS is running 8psi.


BLWN GSR,

Your post implies that the ignition is responsible for your impressive HP numbers with your 6psi system. I read Silvino as pointing out the fact that there are many factors which account for it. All valid points.

218 HP corrected is about 10 more than the GSR which JR dyno'd. Take their car. Take off the PS belt for 3HP. Take off the cat for another 3. I can certainly believe that cam gears could account for another 3 or 4 if you're lucky and have them set even close to optimum. You said yourself "that seemed like the best from most people". Now you've got 218HP. JR actually dyno'd a 6psi GSR at significantly more than yours with no cat, a straight through exhaust, no cam gears, no ignition, a header, 100 octane gas and full timing. My point? I'm not even convinced there's a measurable difference with any aftermarket ignition on a GSR running 6psi. No one has documented this.

[Holden]

Count me as another ignition skeptic (as far as pure power gains on a FI GSR).

I also thought BLWN GSR's post was written in a way that could be interpreted as giving a lot of credit to the ignition system.

I think what BurntGSR knew was going to happen was that people would casually read the post and think that ignitions make a big difference when no one has every done a controlled dyno test to see if the fatter spark helps any.

The boost-linked retard is probably the only incontrovertable improvement from these ignitions, and on that account, the MSD wins hands down.

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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC, I/H/E, yada yada yada...
My JRSC Install Site

[BLWN GSR]

after putting it on my car....much more throttle response....burns the fuel better than the stock ignition down low in the rpm....some people don't believe.....thats there thing...i do ....

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1996 GSR 4dr....221 hp with a 6psi JRSC
Heres how I pay for all my goodies
POWER

[code10-54]

blwngsr: whaz UP! hey bro...that be cool ya make'n 221 ta da f--k'n wheels on 6psi only!--goes ta show ya...ya don't have ta keep dick'n around wid all that 8psi shitz ta get good pwr w/out blown'n yo shitz UP try'n ta fig what da hell is gonna keep yo damn detonation down and at the same time save'n cash money on that $$$ pit! but, its all them parts put ta get together thats net'n yo azz them numbers NOT jus some sillyazz ignition nonsense box...yeah, i seen them boxes on N/A rides and they do dick for them but, they always inc. they gas mileage...Jacobs been hype'n them shitz for yrs. through they ads and as for guaranteed...pleassse. but, ya gonna have ta dyno yo shitz and get a baseline run w/out all yo bolt-ons ta know for sure what da hell is put'n out the HP!--that's gonna cost any way ya looks at it...btw: can ya post yo most recent run shown 221 ta the wheel? how's bout list'n ya shitz of parts for those of us jus want'n to stick wid the ba-itch azz 6psi kit?--nobody's hate'n here...jus jealous fellas cuz ya make'n the pwr, bro!

peace.

[waveoff]

Hey, my other vehicle runs at 148 psi and makes 1200+ HP with no ignition crap!

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Fred G.
'97 Civic EX supercharged http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/track/4059
Beech 1900D driver...2,558 shp, 10,000+ ft./lbs. tq., top speed 331 mph

[BurntGSR]

Rjaffey got it right on the nose as to what I was saying. I knew you would post your figures without enough information and it would mislead tons of folks. I have nothing against the ignition and for all I know it IS better than the MSD but why overkill a factor that isn't a problem in our systems? Sure you get a better spark but if we're burning fuel at x efficiency already then it won't matter if your improve the spark. If we were having engines that were missing then I'd see a point but we're not. That's what I was implying. I knew people would assume the ignition would amount to more than it does. TOO himself says its pointless to have a better ignition (I'm not talking about boost retard) unless you start making over 300 WHP in an Integra. My car melting down was done in the love of my car and tuning. I'm a little crazy and no I'm not chicken so I did run my car hard and fast. Bringing up that I melted (not blown) two pistons due to an over heating motor doesn't mean I didn't do my shit right. It just means I'll have an EGT from now one to watch my ass. I thought I was safe to do what I did until it happened. How many other people on this board have a 160+ MPH picture on this board? I even had a passenger and it ran sweet for a minute or two. My car would have been here and alive if I had not run it 9 times in a row in such a fasion. It had nothing to do with my tuning. Hell, if I had a week or two more, I'd have crushed your WHP number with my setup. Does it mean my MSD rox harder than yours, absolutely not. It just means I had more boost and had tuned the rest of my gear. Your default cam settings will give you power and maybe a couple less than optimal. Point of this whole story is: aftermarket iginition is NOT proven to help our JRSC setups. You're probably better off spending the money on tuning fuel or prepping for higher boost. Props to Rjaffey, BLWNGSR, Code 10-54 and the rest of the folks on the board. I have nothing against something unless I feel its BS and will bring the rest of the homies to a dead end where they have wasted cash. I'm not hatin', I'm jus' helpin'.

[JRCivic]

I waited a long time to reply to this thread... Here is my two cents:

I have no experience with the new ICE pak, but I have sold many "Pro Steet" set-ups in my time. Of these, most did nothing to increase power to the car in question... in fact, in the few cases where an increase was felt by the "butt dyno" of the owner, most actually comes from the addition of a set of quality plug wires... and not the ignition box or coil. As for the ignition box: remember that this unit actually senses your current RPM, and ADVANCES timing according to an internal table. While this is acceptable in a N/A motor, it is dangerous for a FI motor.

Quality of the Jacob's products has been a real problem. Of the seven (7) "Pro Street" systems that I have sold, one ignition box was bad, four distributor caps have failed, and a handful of plug wires have been problematic. Why, just last week, I traced a mis-fire problem down in my own car... the culprit was my Jacob's plug wires !!! One wire has fractured internally and has bad resistance; the other wire failed due to an odd crack in the junction boot meeting the distributor cap... it was arcing across the gap. Now, keep in mind that these plug wires are 11 months old with less than 8000 miles on them.

Make no mistake, I am not trying to "Bash" or "Flame" Jacob's products... I firmly believe that if their quality control improved dramatically, they would have a good product for N/A APPLICATIONS. It is my opinion, and Oscar Jackson's by the way, that this ignition has no place on a FI motor.

Lastly, if this ignition system was better than say MSD, Crane, or Accele, then why don't you see it being used by ANY of the fastest Honda cars in this country ???

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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

[BurntGSR]

Wait, wait, I knew this was going to happen. BLWNGSR, tell them what you had installed and didn't have installed. BLWNGSR had cam gears installed (which many 6 PSI folks don't have) and adjusted to the rule of thumb setting, no cat (most 6 PSI guys don't do), and had several belts removed..power streering/AC (hardly anyone on this board does this unless at the track). That can make a big difference. Just having my power steering off made a HUGE difference the day it broke off. CROM also dropped a few tenths on his 1/8 mile time by just removing that belt. Also, 221 was your uncorrected run right? You said 218 or something corrected. I had 232 uncorrected without cam gears, WITH CAT and all my belts installed and that was without my MSD 6BTM . The Ice Pak deal might work but don't have people thinking its going to give them something it might not. Will (1FSTGSR) dynoed lower than most of our 8 PSI guys too because he has an LSD installed which cuts down WHP too. A well tuned 6 PSI with Ice PAK deal is going to be good but most of our 8 PSI guys using the 6BTM (or not) were getting good power and could have gotten more if they had done a few more steps (SSBP needed cam gears, I needed to dyno with cam gears installed+tuned/with no cat/with MSD unit, etc.).




[This message has been edited by BurntGSR (edited May 16, 2000).]

[Ho_Train]

Doesn't that Mtrs the 1st make the most 6 psi power here? I thought he was over 225 and almost 230. He doesn't have an icepack does he?